Respectable (Liberal) Professional Catholics’ Attempt to Sack Film Backfires

Robert Sungenis and Rick Delano are being dragged through the mud for their work in producing the film, “The Principle.” Karl Keating and many others seem intent on destroying the project and personally attacking the producers. The negative hype seems to have generated interest in the film, as well as finding it a distributor. (Who said, “I don’t care what the newspapers say about me as long as they spell my name right”?)

Why not judge the film on its merits? Why not use the sciences — including the queen of all the sciences, theology — to debunk the film? Why not dialogue with the film’s producers and fans? Why not act respectable?

Here is the full “Miked Up” episode with Michael Voris interviewing the two producers:

This program is from ChurchMilitant.TV

ChurchMilitant.TV’s teaser: “The Principle has become ‘the most reviewed movie never to be seen by its reviewers’ in the history of films. The sad part is, every review been filled with lies, accusations and insinuations. The producers of ‘The Principle’, Rick DeLano and Bob Sungenis, will be defending themselves against these lies.”

  • Steve

    These are the same folks out to destroy a good priest, Fr. Zuhlsdorf. Check out this thinly veiled attack on him by Catholic Answers. No doubt Ms. Arnold has been emboldened by her running buddy, M. Shea, who has had it out for Fr. Z for some time (Shea’s personal vendetta campaign against Michael Voris is the stuff of legends, and he hates this film with a blind rage):

    http://www.catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/i-must-decrease

  • Bonifacius

    But apparently the producers kept a number of participants in the dark about what the movie was about. The experts who appear in the movie say they would have rejected the movie’s premise, had they been informed. Is that the type of behavior we should encourage or defend?

  • Bonifacius

    I mean, the real story here is that the movie’s producers duped people, not that Catholic Answers (or whatever) don’t like geocentrism.

  • I suggest you watch the interview, Bonifacius. And it’s not about them not liking geocentrism. It’s a personal attack, such as these fellows specialize in.

  • Bonifacius

    Well, I should lay out where I’m coming from:

    1.) I’m not really interested in the geocentrism question. If I had my druthers, I prefer the Ptolemaic system, but I have no independent knowledge of physics that would lead me to credit Sungenis’ scientific claims. I long ago abandoned taking positions on matters beyond my ken.

    2.) That people from Catholic Answers attack people who don’t toe their line doesn’t surprise me, but it’s not really news.

    3.) I suggest you read the claims from the people who were interviewed that they weren’t told the context in which their views would be presented: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/04/08/300609595/why-physicists-are-in-a-film-promoting-an-earth-centered-universe
    I find it very hard to believe that physicists would agree to speak in a geocentrist documentary, so I believe that they were misled, or misinformed as to the purpose of the documentary. So my impression is that Sungenis and his co-workers were deceptive. And I don’t find deceptive, manipulative people worth defending against the folks at Catholic Answers. (I also remember seeing, with my own eyes, how Sungenis copied texts about Jewish matters without attribution from sources that were traced back to Nazi texts. I do *not* like or trust people who copy texts without attribution.)

    So I guess it boils down to this: Traditionalists probably feel a bit of an us-vs.-them defensiveness when they see the folks at Catholic Answers attacking Sungenis. Well, I don’t identify with Sungenis because his behavior seems deceptive and manipulative, so I don’t feel defensive of him.

  • I understand where you are coming from, Bonifacius. For me, it’s not about feeling a bit of an us-vs.-them defensiveness. Believe me, I have reasons for not automatically taking Robert Sungenis’ side of an issue, but this is not about the persons involved.

    I am also not a geocentrist, though I have an open mind about the issue. Like you, I try to avoid “taking positions on matters beyond my ken.” Certainly the “Galileo Complex” that’s afflicted the Church so long, whereby Catholics are intimidated by “men of science” into denying the inerrancy of Scripture is a serious problem in the Church.

    I suggest you watch the interview that Voris conducted. Most of it is with Rick Delano, not Robert Sungenis.

  • This is why you should watch the Mic’d Up episode. The producers did not keep anyone in the dark about the film (which is NOT about geocentrism, but about the Copernican Principle). They explained fully to each interviewee that the film would explore various controversial theories, including geocentrism–but the focus of the film is questioning of the Copernican Principle, and the interviewees understood that. There was no misrepresentation.

    The only reason the interviewees reacted as they did is because certain people wrote to them misinforming them that the film is about geocentrism.

  • Hugh Beaumont

    If Krauss and his other colleagues told the truth, then they’re on solid ground. If they exagerrated to create a “buzz” (which wouldn’t surprise me) then that’s their own fault. Suppose a white supremacist were to ask, “Who was the best batter of all time?” And you answered “Ted Williams”, and you were put into his documentary., which supported white supremacy. Would you be worried?

  • Rick DeLano

    Thanks, Bro. Andre Marie! Bonifacius- since you are accepting the testimony of those who have never seen the film, allow me to introduce the testimony of its writer and producer, who, I can completely assure you *has* seen the film.

    Christine Le Niles is right.

    The film is about what its title says it is.

    “The Principle”

    That is, the Copernican Principle.

    It is the single idea which transforms the medieval world into the modern world.

    It has never been a scientific idea.

    It has always been a metaphysical assumption about reality.

    It is now very dramatically challenged by observations of our cosmos on its largest scales.

    The assault on our film is the result of a truly chilling campaign to discredit a film based upon the perceived impermissibility of the views of its creators- IN ADVANCE.

    Please do not be hoaxed:

    http://magisterialfundies.blogspot.com/2014/06/clarification-to-youtube-commenter-on.html

  • Rick DeLano

    Lawrence Krauss was interviewed, for the very first film about the Copernican Principle, for a very good reason.

    He wrote this:

    “But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.”— Lawrence Krauss

    I submit that even non-white supremacists would probably want to talk to the prominent physicist who wrote such an astounding thing, if they were to make a film about the Copernican Principle.

    And so they did.

  • GarretKadeDupre

    Isn’t Geocentrism part of the deposit of faith? The consensus of the Fathers was that the Bible is to be interpreted Geocentrically.

  • Here is my quick reply. If by “geocentrism” you mean that man’s habitation is at the center of the created material universe, yes, that has been revealed. If by geocentrism, you mean one of the specific scientific models of planetary motion, that argument cannot be made.

  • Thomas Donnelly

    Uh, Brother Andre, can you elaborate on that statement? I’m not sure I understand the distinction you’re making.

  • I’ll try to, Thomas. 1.) It’s clear from Scripture and Apostolic Tradition that the earth is at the center of the created material universe. 2.) There are various models of our solar system that have the planets revolving around the sun or the sun and the planets revolving around the earth. Which model one chooses (No. 2) may or may not have bearing on whether you believe No. 1.

    When we don’t know the outer limits of a thing, we cannot determine its exact middle. Scientifically, then, it is not possible to say where the center of the universe is. This we know from revelation.

  • GarretKadeDupre

    One of the books in Sungenis’ Galileo Was Wrong trilogy is entirely devoted to arguing that Earth’s physical immobility is part of divine revelation. I find it completely convincing and I highly recommend it.

    By the way, when you say “main’s habitation is at the center of the created material universe,” is that what you mean? Earth’s physical immobility?

  • Thanks for the recommendation.

    I was referring to the the earth being the center of the universe.

  • GarretKadeDupre

    Brother André, I would go so far as to say that the sun’s revolution about Earth is clear from Scripture and Apostolic Tradition. I find St. Bellarmine’s arguments on this point convincing, which is why I chose his as my confirmation name.

  • SNCHS

    They weren’t duped. They told the truth. It didn’t make their paymasters happy so they started saying they were duped. The Jewish media saying they were duped is priceless. The King of Dupers cries foul. WE’SE BEINZ POISECUTED YA’LL! AHHAHHA WINSTON CHURCHILL SAID THIS ON FEB 8 1920 IN NEWSPAPER IN LONDON: “In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing…and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

    There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews.”

    “Atrocity Propaganda is how we (Brits) won the war!” “We won this war with atrocity propaganda…and now we will start more than ever! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will increase it until nobody will accept one good word from the Germans anymore, until everything is destroyed which might have upheld them sympathies in other countries, and until they will be so confused that they don’t know what to do anymore. When this is reached, when they begin to pollute their own nest, and this not reluctantly but with hasty willingness to obey the winners, only then the victory is complete. It will never be definite. The reeducation demands thorough, steadfast nurture like English lawn. Only one moment of inattention and the weed will break through, this ineradicable weed of historic truth.” – Sefton Delmer (JEWISH), former British chief propagandist, commenting after the capitulation in 1945 to the German expert on international law Prof. Grimm.

    “Do not let yourself be disconcerted by the worldwide clamor that will now begin, There will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, and truth will again triumph.” Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Berlin, May 1st, 1945.

    The MARXISTS slaughtered 66 million Russian Christians behind their iron curtain and the media hid it. This was by the “homeland” security of theirs….called, the CHEKA. Look it up. The Talmud calls all non YIDS ANIMALs. In Yiddish language……do you know what CHEKA means???????!!!!!!!! ANIMAL SLAUGHTER!!!!!!!! The CHEKA changed names to NKVD, the KGB. NOW DO YOU GET IT?

    “Hitler will have no war (does not want wr), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon.”- Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book “The New Holy Alliance”).

    “We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany.” – David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934

    We have exterminated the property owners in Russia.We are going to do the same thing in Europe and America. (The Jew, December 1925,Zinobit)

    youtube: AUSCHWITZ SURVIVORS FORGET THE PLOT

    The world revolution which we will experience will be exclusively our affair and will rest in our hands. This revolution will tighten the Jewish domination over all other people.” – Le Peuple Juif, February 8, 1919

    “Israel won the war [WW I]; we made it; we thrived on it; we profited from it. It was our supreme revenge on Christianity.” (The Jewish Ambassador from Austria to London, Count Mensdorf, 1918).

    “We corrupt in order to rule.”— Italian Jew Freemason Giuseppe Mazzini who was also like his assoc. Albert Pike, real name Albert Chase…Jew who also created the KKK.

    As Napolean said of the jews “They have a creed that blesses their misdeeds and thievings”

    “The United Nations is nothing but a trap-door to the Red World’s immense concentration camp. We pretty much control the U.N.” Harold Wallace Rosenthal (Jew)

    “Masonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic Ritual and what is left?” – “Jewish Tribune of New York”, October 28, 1927

    “Freemasonry is a Jewish establishment, whose history; grades; official appointments; passwords; and explanations, are Jewish from beginning to end.” – Rabbi Isaac Wise – 1927

    “The Jewish people as a whole will be its own messiah. It will attain world dominion by the dissolution of other races, by the abolition of frontiers, the annihilation of monarchy, and by the establishment of a world republic in which the Jews will everywhere exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this “New World Order,” the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The Governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the Jews. It will then be possible for the Jewish rulers to abolish private property, and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state. Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which is said that when the Messianic time is come, the Jews will have all the property of the whole world in their hands.” – Baruch Levy, in a letter to Karl Marx, published in “La Revue de Paris,” pg. 572 – June 1, 1928

    JEWS KILLED 66 MILLION INNOCENT RUSSIANS DURING “PEACE TIME”. THE REAL YOUNG TURKS WERE ALSO JEWISH MASONIC BOLSHEVIKI’S WHO SLAUGHTERED 3 MILLION ARMENIAN INNOCENTS. DIG THESE DATES AND QUOTES BY JEWS. The Jews CHEKA, their homeland security of the day, did these autracities and it was done on non jews which the Talmud calls non jews animals. CHEKA MEANS IN YIDDISH, “ANIMAL SLAUGHTER”. SEE HOW NASTY THESE FOLKS ARE?

    “Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon.” – Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book “The New Holy Alliance”).

    “We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany.” – David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in “I Testify Against The Jews” by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and “The Jewish War of Survival” by Arnold Leese, page 52).

    “We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win.” – Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.

    “There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it.” – Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.

    “Before the end of the year, an economic bloc of England, Russia, France and the U.S.A will be formed to bring the German and Italian economic systems to their knees.” – Paul Dreyfus, “La Vie de Tanger” May 15, 1938.

    On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these “three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell.” – Joseph Trimble, the American Hebrew.

    “Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!” – Bernard Lecache, the president of the “International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism,” in its newspaper “Droit de Vivre” (Right to Life), 9 November, 1938.

    “The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world.” – Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune, March 29, 1939.

    “Hitler killed six million Jews who never existed in gas chambers which nobody ever saw.” — Jewish scholar Roger Dommergue

  • Garret, what’s the title of that book you refer to? I’ve done no reading on this subject, but I recently found out about Finocchiaro’s Retrying Galileo (University of California Press, 2005), and it’s on my ‘to read’ list.

  • Garret Kade Dupré

    The title is Galileo Was Wrong III. It includes a history of Galileo’s trial, which incidentally makes a lot of references to Finocchiaro’s book not only for the purposes of history but also to expose and undermine its pro-Heliocentrism bias.

  • snchs

    White supremacists? ahhahaa What white supremacists? On tv shows and movies. hahahah Try Jewish supremacist, then I’ll know you’re at least above 3 years old. hahahah Get with the real world their dizzy boy.

  • Hugh Beaumont

    Seeing how you missed the point completely, it would be an arduous task to take you back to square one. But go and “high five” yourself – you probably need it.

  • Garret, I respectfully ask that you once again allow the public to read your Disqus posts, for the greater good of those who would follow you, i.e., me.

  • Garret Kade Dupré

    Sorry! Here you go.

  • Thanks very much!