Why Do Catholics Eat Fish on Friday?

Why Do Catholics Eat Fish on Friday?, by Michael P. Foley; published by Palgrave Macmillan, 2005

When I picked up this intriguingly titled paperback, I expected it to be a zippy read, informative, but light and amusing. It is informative all right, and amusing in parts, but it is anything but light. A quick read only because it is so interesting you don’t want to put it down, this little tome educates as well as entertains, informing the reader, as the book’s subtitle says, of the Catholic origin of just about everything! While that may be a bit of an exaggeration, it certainly is astounding to learn of how many words, practices, and historical developments our Catholic Faith has been responsible for, in whole or in part.

Let’s begin with the title. Just why do Catholics eat fish on Friday – or, better said, why do Catholics abstain from warm-blooded flesh meat on Friday? The obvious answer that every Catholic should know is that it is a penance imposed by the Church to commemorate the day of the Crucifixion of Our Lord – to enable us to make a small sacrifice for the incredible sacrifice He made for our salvation. Why, then, is fish allowed? The drawing of a symbolic fish in the dirt was a way that the early Christians knew each other when it was dangerous to admit in public that one was Christian. Our Lord cooked fish for His Apostles after His Resurrection, and most of these men were fishermen. After He established His Church, these fishermen became “fishers of men” for the Kingdom of God.

Did you know that the Catholic practice of abstaining from meat on Friday was the reason for the creation of McDonald’s Filet-o-Fish sandwich?  Because hamburger sales dropped off noticeably on Fridays, the owner of the franchise in Cincinnati introduced the new offering, and sales picked up again. Sadly, many Catholics are not aware that the Friday abstinence rule is still in effect. The post-Vatican-II modification in Church law only allowed the consumption of meat if some other sacrifice or good work was substituted in its place, such as praying the Stations of the Cross, saying extra Rosaries, or some other additional similar offering.

Because monks of the Middle Ages contributed greatly to viniculture, many kinds of wines have a Catholic origin. Specifically, Dom Perignon, cellar master of a Benedictine Abbey in the Champagne region of France, discovered the methode champenoise by inventing stronger containers that could contain the gas released by the fermentation process. The story goes that when he tasted the first product of the new method, he called to his fellow monks, “Brothers, come quickly: I am drinking stars!” The Christian Brothers are known for their wines and brandies. Then, there is the famous Chartreuse liqueur from the Carthusian Charterhouse in Voiron, France, which still makes its famous green-colored aperitif, the formula of which is known by only three monks in the cloister. When one dies, the secret is revealed to a new monk. Chartreuse supposedly is concocted of one hundred thirty herbs, some of which are picked by hand from the nearby mountainside. It was perfected in 1605, but did not leave the walls of the cloister until some French army officers publicized its virtues in 1848.

A few other strong beverages having some Catholic influence are Benedictine, Frangelico, the wine Chateauneuf-de-Pape (New Castle of the Pope), several beers made by monks, like La Trappe and Chemay and the label on the Jagermeister bottle, which has a picture of a stag with a cross between his antlers, an allusion to the conversion of Saint Hubert, patron saint of hunters. To top off our list of strong drink, we sip a cup of cappuccino, named after Blessed Marco D’Aviano, a Capuchin friar and powerful preacher who rallied Christian troops, Catholic and Protestant alike, before the Battle of Vienna in 1683, spurring them on to victory against the Turks. Legend has it that the good Franciscan found sacks of coffee beans left behind by the Turks in their haste to retreat. After brewing himself a cup, he found it too bitter for his taste; so he added milk and honey, thus creating the first cup of the tasty beverage. The Viennese named it “little Capuchin” (cappuccino) after Friar Marco whose habit was the same color as the drink!

Mr. Foley includes a broad spectrum of topics in this gem – manners and etiquette, the arts, theater, sports, science, politics, holidays, food and drink, Biblical expressions that have been adopted into the vernacular.

My favorite chapter of the book is titled, ‘WORDS, WORDS, WORDS – Catholic, Anti-Catholic and Post-Catholic,’ wherein we discover that the first Latin author to use the term etymology to indicate the study of words was Saint Isidore of Seville.

Here are a few examples of Catholic etymologies: Saint Thomas More first used the words integrity and utopia. Agon was the Greek work signifying combat. Saint Luke (22:44) describes Our Lord’s suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane before His Passion as the Agony in the Garden. Soliloquies, a word which we want to associate with Shakespeare, was first used by Saint Augustine in the fourth century, as a title for his dialogue between himself and Reason. The Devil’s Advocate was the title given to the cleric whose duty it was to compile as many negative things against a candidate for canonization, not to prevent the event, but to assure that the candidate was truly worthy of sainthood.

The popular expression “when in Rome, do as the Romans do” was first said by Saint Ambrose to Saint Augustine and his mother, Saint Monica, when they inquired as to which city’s fasting custom they should observe on a visit to Rome – the city of Milan, where Ambrose was bishop and Augustine resident, or the city of Rome.

The expressions included in the “ANTI-CATHOLIC – OR AT LEAST A BIT IRREVERENT” section are really fascinating.  To learn about these and many, many others you will have to read this wonderfully informative book yourself.  It is the kind of book that you want to have handy at all times because it certainly bears reading again and again.

Buy the book at Amazon.com.

  • ED

    It is a great book and a perfect one to put on your coffee table in the living room where a guest can pick it up and perhaps start a conversation about a topic.

  • I am a Catholic but I do not really know what the reason is..Do you know?

  • Steven Collins71

    Why is it that this article did absolutely nothing to 1. answer the question, 2. dispell the myriad of myths surrounding this age old question?

  • The answer is given right in the article, second paragraph. The article is a simple book review and was not intended to be an exhaustive treatment of the subject of eating fish on Friday.

  • Yuri Cordozar

    Wasn’t it pure propaganda to make money because the Church owned a bunch of fish companies in the middle ages? I’ll leave this here, you make the research.

  • michael stimpson

    But… wasn’t Jesus crucified by the Israelites who were Jewish and Romans who were pagan? Catholicism didn’t come along until the 4th century. I live in a predominantly catholic country and the environmental load caused by this custom, celebrated by 1.1 billion people, which isn’t in the scripture, is enormous, how could we ever conserve fish stocks? Its telling that Catholicism has had to be revised twice when people started asking awkward questions. I have trouble cutting my lawn on Sunday even though the Sabath is saturday, and Jesus said to set aside one day of the week for the Lord, he didn’t mention which day, that was decided by somebody else. 1.1 billion brainwashed people who have been indoctrinated so far that they are scared to pick up a non catholic bible and read it so that they might think for themselves. It will always be an abomination.

  • schmenz

    Michael, you have an enormous amount of study ahead of you if you are still clinging to such notions. You bring up so many points, some of which are frankly absurd, that I wouldn’t know how to begin to respond. But if I had to recommend anything for your perusal to help to disabuse you of your notion that Catholicism began in the 4th century it might be a thorough reading and study of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

    That would be a good place to start your journey of understanding.

    Best wishes for Christmas.

  • michael stimpson

    I have spent only two years of bible study, although none studying Catholic dogma. I can only judge by what I see and the way the local people practice their version of Christianity in opposition to what I have read and understood.

    But you talk of “such notions,” are you suggesting that over fishing does not deplete fish stocks? Can you not see that a religious doctrine that encourages people to eat a certain type of food might be unsustainable? I asked my family why they don`t eat meat on Friday, Good Friday or Christmas eve and they could not tell me why.

    My wife tells me that the local catholic priests have in the past refused to baptise children whose names are not deemed to be Christian. These are children and Jesus said “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.”

    Such notions – the sabath is not saturday? Wow. Lets see In the Old Testament, God stated,

    “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you,” (Exodus 20:8-10, NASB). In Slavic languages the word for saturday is Subota meaning Sabath! People have become confused with Romans where it mentions people meeting on Sunday, the first day of the week to break bread, these are the words of Paul. Meeting with others and resting are not the same.

    I can see how you might think that Catholicism is a continuation of early Christianity, and the primacy of Peter. Peter was a power hungry narcissist who denied Jesus and misinterpreted his words. Reading Jesus do you honestly think that is what Jesus wanted? An authoritarian, money grabbing and hording institution?

    In fact the fathers of the Catholic church autonomously set out their own rules for their own glorification and self promotion, most of which go completely against what I see as Jesus laseiz faire approach to worship, even today many of the Christians I know are inconsiderate hoarders of wealth. even though the bible is clear, people cannot relate the words of Jesus to their individualistic self centred lives. Jesus advocated consideration for all and a simple minimalist existence, I watch them chanting in the church without really knowing or thinking about what they are saying. The church has harboured evil for centuries and at best has caused infinite distress to generations at worst, we we know our history. None of which bears an relation to the word of Jesus Christ.

    So, the Pope still sits on a golden throne, in fine silk, if Jesus turned up at the Vatican tomorrow, the pope in his finery, through embarrassment, might deny him or he might simply throw off his garments and slip quietly out of the rear entrance. All credit to Francis who is the least conservative Pope in decades, I am sure that if he has a plan for the church it cannot be undertaken quickly.

  • schmenz

    Michael, if you don’t wish to learn, if you are content to merely regurgitate anti-Catholic cliches and misinformation, then I am not sure how an intelligent give-and-take conversation can occur. Forgive me, but when I see the accusation of “unsustainable” fish-gobbling directed against the few Catholics left who actually do respect the no-meat Friday tradition, I had to laugh a bit.

    You say your family did not know why Catholics abstain from meat on Friday. If true, that is a perfect description of the extremely poor catechesis now dominant in the Church since the Second Vatican Catastrophe of 1965. But if they and you want to know why Catholics are called to abstain from meat on Friday, perhaps you might read the article above which elicited your comments.

    If you are willing to learn and are willing to see the other side of the story I recommend again my earlier suggestion to you. In your studies of the Fathers and Doctors you might learn too that the New Testament superseded the Old and that basing your religious view strictly on the Old Testament is perhaps not the best idea. I do believe Our Lord came to fulfill these things, no?

  • mvhorne

    maybe we should avoid eating all meat and work hard as Jesus had to do on that day if we ate to show commemoration. fish is meat too. Fasting is tough..especially not showing our hynger as jesus instructed. I am sure the fish deal came about when someone aid “boy i am hungry..sure could use sone meat of some sort” and justified the fasting from by limiting to the fish. Tradition stuck and here we are trying to tie dictrine to it.

  • Eleonore

    mvhorne, “Meat” is considered the flesh of warm-blooded animals. Fish and other seafood are cold-blooded; so are not technically considered meat for the purpose of abstaining. This is a rule of the Church that has nothing to do with doctrine – which I assume you mean by “dictrine.” Your assumptions are very silly. How are you “sure” that the tradition began this way? Have you done any research? Fasting (not eating food) and abstaining from meat are simple penitential practices which the Church recommends. The Friday penance was not done away with after Vatican II as so many assume. It was merely stated that SOME KIND of penance in stead of abstinence from meat should be kept on Friday in commeration of Our Lord’s sacrifice on Good Friday. Many Catholics continue to keep the traditional Friday abstinence.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Why does an Almighty Creator of all the splendor we see thru our telescopes care that you only order fish off the take out menus?

  • You get the Voltaire award for the most corrosively mocking comment of the day!

    But neither God nor his Church demands that we eat fish — not on Friday, not ever.

    If God…

    A.) Cares about US (which He does)…

    …and…

    B.) Gave HIS CHURCH authority to institute disciplinary laws for the good of the faithful (which He did)…

    then…

    God cares that we keep those disciplinary laws, just as he cared that the Jews of the Old Testament times observed the dietary laws He instituted.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Wow thank you for the award. So the answer is God doesn’t care and because we said so. Ok Thanks

  • Go to your room and think about what you just posted. :-)

  • Jeremy Wren

    But I have more questions??? :)

    Like why did God Create all the glories and wonders like pulsars, quasars, beautiful galaxies, blackholes and billions of stars and planets… Then come back to Earth…. Grow and tree… and Say DONT EAT THAT!

  • Jeremy Wren

    And why there no ship on a Mountain top? or Why are there no chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. or Why is there no evidence of a global flood in the Geologic Column?

  • God gave Adam and Eve an order of obedience to test them.

  • Jeremy Wren

    But God also said “I am not a tempter of men” Right?

  • Who says there’s no ship on a mountain top? Several have claimed to see the Ark.

    There is plenty of evidence for a global flood in the geological column.

  • Jeremy Wren

    And why would a God that could CREATE ALL THOSE WONDERS care?

  • Correct. A test is not a temptation. The devil tempted. God tested.

  • Because He loves us. We are more important than those wonders, which he created for us, as well as for His glory.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Ummmm No. We have Ground penetrating Radar and they have looked. In fact Norad looked with the highest of technology. A ship on a mountain would be BREAKING NEWS worldwide. One guy claimed to have found ONE Aluminum Wheel in the Red Sea. Problem was aluminum didn’t exist then. And there is ZERO Evidence of a global flood any where on this planet. Zero… And some VERY smart scientist have looked.

  • Jeremy Wren

    LOL… Wow. Ok

  • Jeremy Wren

    I am glad that SOOOOOO many people are opening their eyes to all these things that just DON’T make any sense. People used to pray to and WORSHIP Thor and Zeus and of course NOW we know that was a silly thing to do because we now know they never existed.

  • Why is there an upside-down tree in the middle of millions of years of geological strata? Impossible if it was laid down over long periods of time.

  • Where are there so many fossils of marine life on mountains all over the world?

    Why does literature all over the world — not only Jewish and Christian — refer to an epic flood?

  • Jeremy Wren

    I live 4 miles from answersingensis… and they are total nuts and ZERO science. The Creation Museum is going bankrupt because not even the Christians and Catholics around here believe that craziness. I have studied the flood claims for years. None of it is anything close to being proven. So, Wacko “Scientists” realized they HAD to work in some “proof” and they have tried. Going as far as to say that God built a land bridge so the kangaroos could get to Australia then God magically removed the land bridge and all evidence of it. But REAL PROVEN Science not some religion blogger says there was NO FLOOD.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Plate Tectonics… It’s SO easily explained with very little effort. And The Religious stories were passed around… Homers works survived. These are stories that were written in a time when they couldn’t imagine the technology we have now. They thought these stories were safe and for many years they were.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Look up the Story of Horace if you get time…. It mirrors Jesus EXACTLY… But it was told 5,000 years before Jesus… These stories have been around for 1000s of years.

  • Jeremy Wren

    It’s called Science….

    Organic matter does not need to be fossilised to be preserved, lack of oxygen can do the same thing even in a wet environment.

    How can a tree be found upside down traversing several strata?

    A tree blows over due to a storm and falls into a stagnant lake. This lake has high concentrations of sulphur, methane and CO2 but no oxygen. The tree will float for a while and become waterlogged at which point it will sink to the bottom of the lake and lodge upside down. It can remain in this submerged state for a long period of time without decomposing even if it isn’t buried (the Mary Rose is an example) while events above the surface of the lake cause layers of sediment to be deposit gradually building the lakebed up and over the tree.

    Now it’s sealed and won’t decompose even if the lake ceases to be. Over time the fossilisation process will preserve it for evermore and the result is a fossilised, inverted tree.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Brother André Marie, M.I.C.M. Mod • 29 minutes ago

    Correct. A test is not a temptation. The devil tempted. God tested.

    I HOPE that you can re-read that… And try to realize HOW SILLY that sounds.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Answers in Genesis subscribes to the Land Bridge idea and of course it is completely fabricated. But in order for ALL this to work out they have to say and pretend that it’s true.

  • Greater minds than yours and mine have accepted the distinction. To tempt is to encourage sin, whereas to test is to give an occasion for making the right choice. In the case of our first parents in the garden, God tested them and gave them the grace they needed to obey. The devil tempted.

    You need look no further than the account in Genesis to see the difference between testing and tempting.

    It’s not too difficult to grasp.

  • Jeremy Wren

    That statement assumes you know me and my mind… ;) I don’t want to toot my own horn.. but I’m pretty smart… I might just surprise you, hehehe

  • The Kolbe Center is a Catholic organization whose founder and director I know. I don’t know the Answers in Genesis fellows.

    http://kolbecenter.org/

  • Humble, too.

  • Jeremy Wren

    I’ll gladly read the website…. I research for a living. I love it. But I can assure you… I will not find evidence of a Land Bridge nor a Global Flood. It just never happened. And it doesn’t take 2 PhDs to understand that.

  • Here is one of their articles that may interest you: http://kolbecenter.org/question-of-time/

  • Jeremy Wren

    I never claimed to be humble… hehehe

  • But these trees I’m talking about penetrate layers each of which supposedly represents millions of years. That does not fit your model, if I’m following you.

  • Jeremy Wren

    That’s SO NOT Science… If you could remove your Religion Hat and read that you would Laugh as Hard as I just did. It’s just not Science. That’s the same thing Ken Hamm spews almost word for word. Again, it can’t and never will stand up to the Scientific Method… Because it relies on an outside “Magical” force that doesn’t exist. The Scientific Method works and cannot even be applied to their position. That article is equal to trying to build a castle on quick sand. It just doesn’t work. And it’s not Science.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Science… You are talking about the Mary Rose, I’m guessing. Science SO easily explains it. No magical flood required.

  • Jeremy Wren

    The Flood… if it were true, would have murdered 25,000,000 people. Native Americans… South Americans… Australians… These people did nothing to the Middle East setting were the Bible takes stage. Hitler only murdered 7,000,000 people and we are still pissed at him.

  • I think you mean Horus, the Egyptian deity, not Horace, the Roman lyric poet during the time of Augustus. And the resemblance between the two (Horus and Jesus) is a bad joke — one that’s been thoroughly debunked. But the Bill Mahers of the world haven’t noticed yet.

    Cf.: http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

    There’s even a funny video about it:

    You’ve just corroborated my assertion that “Greater minds than yours and mine have accepted the distinction.” :-)

  • Jeremy Wren

    Ahhh… Resorting to the ole “You spelled a word wrong” argument is the first step towards conceding intellectual failure. Though to be honest, you lasted longer than most. Congrats! Sorry to burst your bubble but this is a website not a Spelling Bee.

    It has not been debunked. It is well documented history. I know religious people fear historical data. But the story and myth of HORUS… Is just as well documented as the myth of Jesus.

  • Jeremy Wren

    You defend the senseless murder of 25 Million people (thankfully this is a total farce and 25 Million people didn’t die – No drowned bones found thankfully disproves this myth easily)… And I’ll defend my spelling errors… :)

  • No, it really HAS been debunked. All those supposed similarities don’t exist.

  • When the author of life ends it, which He has the authority to do, it is not called murder. He made it in the first place. And it’s hardly pedantic to note that Horace is not Horus. Third parties reading this might wonder what resemblance to Jesus Horace had.

    That you choose to believe historically inaccurate retellings of the Horus mythology in order to debunk Christianity is an abuse of your free will. It’s not science, history, or rationality. It’s dogmatic anti-Christian irrationality.

  • schmenz

    Beam me up, Jeremy!

  • Jeremy Wren

    I know. I read that article. It was “debunked” by a Catholic using the Bible. That would be like me debunking a brain surgeon with a comic book. But the facts of the story of Horus are… shall we say… written in stone. And they aren’t going anywhere. There’s also about 25 other deities who were all born on Christmas Day. This is the winter solstice and the beginning of a new age that’s why they’re all born on Christmas Day. Historically Jesus’s birth was not even in December. But it was important to move his date to December 25th just like all the other false deities.

  • Alyosha Karamazov

    Debunked by a guy using the Bible? That’s a straw-man argument and a half! The article shows that the Horus myths do not have those supposed manifold resemblances to the Gospel accounts by using authentic scholarship: the science of Egyptology, not the pseudo-scientific version of Gerald Massey, an amateur Egyptologist who had far less data to go on that scholars have today.

    It was Massey’s work that started the Horus-Christ nonsense.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Of course horus is a myth. That was my point. horus just as much a myth as Jesus. If the Bible were true… There would be a ship on top of a mountain. There would be chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. And on and on. And there’s not. Picking the top of a mountain and the bottom of the sea was a strategic move by the authors of this fraud. They never dreamed we would have submarines or satellites that could look at the top of mountains. They thought their fraud was safe but as we see now it’s not. Its not a debate. It’s not up for discussion. Those physical things that could prove the Bible are not there. Therefore that is proof of a fraud.

  • Alyosha Karamazov

    You avoided all my points. I was not trying to impress upon you that Horus is a myth, but that Gerald Massey’s anti-Christian pseudo-science was a myth. I’ve noticed that you deftly avoid addressing the existence of evidence contrary to your atheistic presuppositions. You’re wasting people’s time.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Your points are not worthy of my attention until you answer these questions… Where is the Ark? Where are the chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea? And where is any evidence of a global flood in the geological column? Until then all of your points are moot and a waste of Earth’s time. These are physical tangible things that should be there if the stories were true. They are not there. Therefore the stories are false. If you read a book about Stonehenge that was written in ancient times or modern times ar you could read that story then get on an airplane and go visit Stonehenge. If we read books about Stonehenge but we couldn’t go see it we would know Stonehenge was a myth. That’s undeniable undebatable proof that religion is a fraud. Therefore none of your points matter or are worthy of my time.

  • joannemary

    but it is so evident that you had no idea of what you spoke if you couldn’t even get the name correct. It was not a misspelling it was an incorrect name. So much for intellect and research.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Yawnnnnnnn Where is the Ark? Nothing Else matters. :)

  • joannemary

    Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy – it’s called a liturgical calendar.

  • Jeremy Wren

    25 gods born on December 25th??? And liturgical calendar is your answer?

  • Jeremy Wren

    Where is the ARK? What are the Chariots in the Red Sea?

  • joannemary

    I don’t disagree with any of your points. However the no meat controversy wasn’t a command to eat fish. It was meant to inspire “fasting” in memory of Christ’s suffering and crucifixion. I think substituting shrimp, tuna, flounder or pizza for meat is hardly a sacrifice.
    So the point was always the sacrifice in imitation of Christ’s sacrifice. I think fish just became the alternative and not particularly a saintly alternative. As a child, tuna noodle casserole was the Friday Lenten meal and I never saw it as a negative. Perhaps that’s just the point. It wasn’t until I became an adult and recognized the difference true fasting for Lent and eating fish in stead of meat.

  • joannemary

    Brother, with much respect for trying to help J. Wren but this whole discussion got so far into the weeds and away from the point of the article. Now I haven’t read the article but even the title is a non sequitur in the extreme. It implies so much misunderstanding of the Lenten fast. The church by asking us to not eat meat on Fridays in Lent was not advocating for us to eat fish. In fact I have never viewed substituting flounder, tuna, shrimp, lobster or pizza for that matter as a real fast. Isn’t the idea to eat little, to give up something as a reminder of Christ’s suffering and sacrifice on Calvary. Food is such a little thing to give up as a reminder especially in countries laden with it. Actually we might be reminded that there are many who go hungry every day. When I was a child Fridays during Lent was mostly tuna noodle casserole and I looked forward to it. I was an adult before I realized that I wasn’t fasting at all if I ate the items mentioned above. So the title of this article is a false premise to start with. It isn’t about the meat or the fish; it’s about the fast, the limit of the food for the day. I read a book by Mina Nevisa called Miracles of Miracles. She is a Christian convert from Islam. In her book she mentions Ramadan and how Muslims the world over skirt the fasting rules. Did you know that they eat huge meals in the middle of the night to get around the fasting requirements? Isn’t this comparable to eating a huge fish meal? It isn’t about substituting fish for meat. It is actually about fasting, eating little for one day out of seven as a small reminder of Christ’s sacrifice for us. I know you are praying for J. Wren’s atheism but really, Brother, it’s like arguing with a parrot. He’s a know it all and their mind’s are closed. I try to imagine him reading Augustine, or Jerome and get to laughing. Teresa the Little Flower or St. Monica would send him into a tizzy. And the spinning sun of Fatima and Medjugorje……..no science to explain that and yet thousands of witnesses.

  • joannemary

    Pride goeth before the fall, Jeremy. And it is amusing to even think of you actually reading Augustine, Jerome, Teresa, Monica etc, etc. etc. or even a Nevisa.

  • Thank you for your comment. You’re right about the parrot thing. The title of the article is such because it is essentially a book review of a book entitled, “Why Do Catholics Eat Fish on Friday?” Which is a humorous title based on the misunderstanding that eating fish was required, which it never was.

  • Is it scientifically possible that a 5,000-year-old wooden structure rotted?

  • Jeremy Wren

    In a cold environment like a frozen mountain top, should be plenty of it left behind. And 1000s of metal chariots and 1000s of dead soldiers bones would of course survived in the Red Sea. Plenty of expeditions of have tried and failed in both locations.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Hey, it’s not my fairy-tales…. These are yours. Don’t get mad at me just because I’m the one telling you that your “Santa Claus” isn’t real.

  • Let me ask the question again: “Is it scientifically possible that a 5,000-year-old wooden structure rotted?”

  • Jeremy Wren

    See above Response… I really don’t have time to continue this absurd conversation… And I certainly don’t have time to answer questions TWICE.
    :>)

  • You said, “In a cold environment like a frozen mountain top, should be plenty of it left behind.” You did not say whether it were scientifically possible for it to have rotted.

  • joannemary

    Good heavens, child, historic persons are not fairy tales. And, of course, Nicholas was real. Your ignorance is quite amusing. By your logic, Euclid, Herod, Tut, Ignatius, Cicero, Herodotus, Socrates, Ovid, Pythagoras, Agrippa, Cornelius, Patrick, etc., are fairy tales because you have never read their works or heard of them. It is striking – you remind me of a person existing in the Dark Ages, fraught with fear and limited in thought. Now, of course, they had an excuse – lost knowledge. Bless all those Catholic monks scribing and copying away all those tomes for eventual rediscovery. Time for you, Jeremy, to rediscover them too. Start with Aquinas, that might set you back a year or two or three.

  • Jeremy Wren

    I can’t roll my eyes hard enough. Adults believing in fairytales and Santa Claus stories? And they drive and vote… Scary

  • joannemary

    …that must be because you know nothing of the individuals listed? Your under education is showing. Obviously education lacking in Jesuit brain training or Logic. And, yep, scary that you drive and vote. Let me guess. You think socialism will save the world? Be careful here, Jeremy, one only has to read recent (around the last 8 years) repots on Venezuela’s experiment with it to know the truth.

  • Sarah Hutchison

    You’re doing an awful lot of eye rolling. You seem to possess lots of knowledge in certain fields and are more than eager to show off that knowledge. Yet, having encountered a field in which you are ignorant you respond with dismissive, smug retorts aimed at steering conversation back into a sphere in which you can comfortably run your mouth. The way you dismiss that which you know nothing of mirrors the sort of blind religiosity you seem to be railing against in your previous posts.
    That having been said, I don’t agree with the guy trying to legitimize a literal reading of the bible and such. I identify as Christian and consider myself a deeply religious person but I disagree with those who wear religion like badly made balaclava (one where the eye holes are sewn shut but the mouth hole is wide open, lol). Denying scientific fact is tantamount to minimizing the glory of God’s creation. For me, realizing the dichotomy between the spiritual and the physical is necessary for the strength of ones faith. The way I see it, the stuff in the bible deals mostly with the spiritual, only dipping occasionally into physical realities, and when you read the bible like it’s a news periodical you undermine the spiritual value of it, as well as your own ability to reap any truth from the text. Just my opinions, take ’em or leave ’em.

  • Jeremy Wren

    When I was a boy I would try so hard to be good all year long for that one day when Santa brought gifts or coals… My parents told me if I was naughty I would be punished by a man that lived at the North Pole. But if I was good I would get presents… Man that is ALL it took. My parents would never lie to me. And I thought every day about how I could be good to get those special treats every year…. Religion is NO DIFFERENT. A “credible source” that convinces you to be good for treats. Just as my parents fooled me…. Your religious people have fooled you. There is EQUAL proof that Santa lives at the North Pole and that there is a god. In fact there is MORE proof because kids can write him a letter and receive a response. IF there is a god… She is not very good at her job. There have been 100s of gods thought up on this earth and there is equal proof for every single one of them….. ZERO… Not any whatsoever. Not a footprint.. Not a magical device…. Not an angel… Not even ANYTHING that required a “god” to imagine. Only a very flawed book that Science has disproven over and over… And what used to be taught as fact like a flat earth, or a man walking on water or living in a fish… NOW you say oh those were just stories… That’s not literal… Well for a 1000 years you could be killed by the church for not believing these fairy tales…. Now as science explains away your false beliefs… The “God of the Gaps” appears…. Just because you don’t understand something does not mean a god is responsible for it.

  • GeneDe

    Man, you sure are confusing me… It seems to me that you would not even accept a reality, a proven fact, if presented to you. That is why unbelief is UN-reasonable. Let me ask you a question: if a miracle was performed right in front of you, would you believe that you just saw a miracle? Or, would you deny what you just saw? Or, what others have seen with documented facts? The answer to this question will go along way in trying to figure you out.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Yes.. If I saw a miracle right in front of me I would sale everything I own and dedicate my life to whatever did the deed. But I don’t have to worry about that do I? And NO facts have been presented here. I agree that Jesus was a real person. He is documented. But so are people that lived 1000’s of years before him. Things that SHOULD be easily proven aren’t and will never be because they didn’t happen. Like 1 shred of global flood.. That should be verifiable EVIDENCE… Didn’t happen. It was a story taught as fact. The earth being “created”. Myth taught as fact. Science tells us everything we need to know. Religions are now even plagiarizing science by saying.. Oh it’s a metaphor… What a joke. NOTHING that proves a god exists or we would not be having this conversation. It’s so stinking silly…. Adult Santa Claus stories is all it is.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Faith is the act of believing something with zero evidence that it’s real… Your faith is Evidence that it’s not real. Otherwise, faith would not be needed. There are 100’s of religions and god on this earth right now… This very moment… Where are the miracles? Where is just one shred of proof that any of them are real… Out of the 100’s of gods… There is zero evidence… Zero.

  • GeneDe

    Wow! That was a fast response! I think I would like to stick with the miracle “angle” for a while… You said that you would sale — I think you meant sell — everything I own and dedicate my life to [“]whatever[“] did the deed. Were you being sarcastic here, or did you mean that? The answer you give is important.

  • Jeremy Wren

    This is not a spelling bee, Sweet Pea.

  • Jeremy Wren

    Yes.. Show me a miracle and I’m all yours. lol

  • GeneDe

    Good luck…

  • Jeremy Wren

    Thanks… Luck is a fairy tale too, lol

  • Jeremy Wren

    For Example… I don’t need to have faith that my bottled water is drinkable. I KNOW it is because I can see and taste it. I can visit the source it was bottled from and see the factory itself. If your god was real your faith would not be needed. There would be some sort of verifiable proof and you have none at all. The necessity of faith proves it false.

  • Sarah Hutchison

    Wait a sec… the flat earth thing… that was SCIENCE that said that. Indeed, science of centuries past has had some pretty strange schools of thought that are now considered pretty whack: phrenology and the doctrine of Signature etc. Now, should we dismiss all forms of scientific inquiry, all scientific ideas and concepts, because of these past practices? Of course not. However, that is the mode of thinking with which you appear to regard religion. You seem to be dismissing the very concept that a person could be both religious and sane.

  • CJ

    Fish is not a meat, nor is it poultry, which is technically meat. The reason fish is okay to eat is because in small amounts it can still give u the large amounts of protein one needs to get thru a work day and Jesus would frequently provide fish for the disciples in lieu of meat as it was able to be provided in plentiful amounts whilst still abiding by the minimalist ideologies of the true Christian faith. Fasting to show remembrance of Jesu’s sacrifice is to eat very little to nothing compared to wat one normally eats through out the week. Fish just became the par de norm for Catholics and nobody really knows y anymore or abides by the canon law of fish fruits and vegetables only on Fridays and fasting in like.